Tough Choice - Getting Your Way vs. Never Hating the One You Love

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Permalink Reply by Patricia Barbiero on August 18, 2008 at 7:28am

Marriage is a negotiation. Love is not just a feeling, but a choice in daily behaviors.

To build compatibilty into a marriage, one must negotiate with your spouse! After 18 years of marriage, including a 18 month separation and a trip down divorce court lane...my husband and I have learned that the principles of a good marriage are simple, but not intuitive. If you trust your instincts (like we did) you will drive your marriage right over the cliff.

The rule is simple. Never ever gain at your spouse's expense. If you both practice this principle, you both will be happy - not resentful. Sounds too good to be true doesn't it?

It just means that when you want something, you have to be respectful, open and honest with your spouse about what you would like, and open negotiation. The key is to find a solution that you both can be excited and enthusiastic about. If either of you is just resigned or giving in - then the negotiation is not successful.

This is how you intentionally, and deliberately build compatibility in your marriage. I can simply tell you that it works - it saved my marriage 8 years ago. Instead of divorcing, now people who meet us are envious of our great relationship.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Goulston on August 18, 2008 at 10:07am

Patricia,
Never ever gain at your spouse's expense. That IS wonderful advice. Other advice and quotes from people I've received over the years:
-Establish ground rules for disagreements that both partners respect more than either being right.
-In matters of the world stay in control; in matters of the heart, give it up.
-If you look for reasons to be grateful to your partner you can always find them; if you look for reason to be disappointed, you can always find those, too. It all depends on what you choose to look for.
-Marriages end not because you stop loving each other, but because you can't stop hating each other.
-To err is human, to take full responsibility for it, divine.
-Immature love is loving someone for what they do right; mature love is loving someone in spite of what they do wrong.
-The secret to a happy second marriage is for both partners to marry someone whose ex- was so awful that the worse thing you could ever do, doesn't even make it on their radar screen.
-Affairs happen when one partner seeks the adoration and respect their spouse once felt for the.
-Love means ALWAYS having to show you're sorry.

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Permalink Reply by Stever Robbins on August 18, 2008 at 7:48am

It's a false dichotomy. You want, say, to go to an Italian restaurant. Your spouse wants to go to a Greek restaurant. Here are the choices I would find:

1. Demand Italian, drag my spouse unwillingly.
2. Go for Greek, resent it, and end up hating my spouse.

(These are the two choices you implied above.)

3. Recognize that what's really driving me is this quandry:

I want Italian food.
I want to please my spouse (or if I'm fear-motivated, I'm afraid my spouse will leave me if I don't go along).
I don't want Greek food.

I'd get clear about my true priorities in the moment and discuss them with my spouse. "Gee, spouse 'o 'mine, I love you madly and forever... And tonight, I really want Italian food, not Greek. And I want to please you, and I'm afraid if we just go for Greek food, I'll end up angry, and neither of us want that. And I'm afraid if we just go for Italian food, you'll end up angry. So... what shall we do? We could also each go our own way then meet up afterwards for ice cream."

Note that this isn't a formula that I would use every time. Whenever I feel a conflict, I spend a few minutes to identify the truly competing values, and then voice them. Often, once I realize the real priorities, the conflict resolves and the choice becomes obvious (Please my sweetie vs. gorging on pasta? Of course I want to please my sweetie more!!). The introspection is necessary, though, to know where the real conflict is coming from.

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Permalink Reply by Dennis H. Lewis on August 20, 2008 at 10:49am

Right now, my wife and I are going through a tough period, so this post caught my eye.

Perhaps the problem with choosing "not getting your way" is that in the end you wind up hating yourself instead of your spouse.

Patricia, how do you get to a negotiation situation if the other party is convinced that:

1. It's your fault.
2. If you really loved me, you wouldn't ....

Regards,

Dennis

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Permalink Reply by Stever Robbins on August 21, 2008 at 4:42pm

Hi, Dennis. I read a book called "I Need Your Love--is That True?" by Byron Katie and used her technique to identify my own issues around blaming my partner and the whole "if you loved me, you wouldn't..." mindset.

Her approach is internal and individual. It's purely about me getting clear in my thinking. So my sweetie says, "If you really love me, you wouldn't leave your socks on the floor." And I say (with 100% sincerity! This is about utter internal clarity, NOT manipulation), "I love you very much. And I leave my socks on the floor. It just seems to be the way I'm wired." And if it's something I'm trying to change, I'll add, "And I'm doing my best to remember to pick them up." And that's it.

There's a wonderful clip starting exactly 3 minutes into this video where Katie role-plays "giving an honest No" with a woman whose husband wants her to vacuum.


Regarding "it's your fault..." If she's right, then what's the problem? Say, "you're right." Apologize and move on. If she's wrong, what does it matter? Say, "I understand." (You do. You understand she thinks it's your fault.) Then apologize and move on.

I used to be way too attached to being right, and not attached enough to keeping things loving. Now, it's almost a fun joke between us that I'll accept full responsibility and "fault" even for things that blatantly aren't my fault. It makes everything light, rather than a heavy guilt trip.

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Permalink Reply by Patricia Barbiero on August 26, 2008 at 12:27pm

Hi Dennis,

My husband and I found it useful to stop pointing fingers at each other and to focus on our own responsiblities to our relationship. We asked for feedback and took it seriously. If something I did hurt, bothered or annoyed my husband, I stopped doing it. And he did the same. It required that we both agreed to do our best to avoid hurting the other person. It means choosing behavior rather than reacting to emotions.

We found a couple of books very helpful, one was The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman and the other was His Needs, Her Needs by Dr. William Harley.

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Permalink Reply by Justice Marshall on August 21, 2008 at 12:21pm

This is a situation I rarely find myself in anymore. I've found a way to both serve my wife, AND honour myself... win/win. I was introduced to a relationship model called Gender Synergy which honours and explains the differences not just between men and women, but between "masculine energies" and "feminine energies." I've been through couples counselling, divorce and years of misery and negotiation... yuck. What negotiation almost always fails to address is that masculine and feminine drives are different. Anyway, there's too much to say about this here. Suffice to say, Gender Synergy turned me around almost immediately and has helped many, many people understand and transform their relationship dynamics. Of course, years of suffering can be a great motivator for change!

I now teach the Gender Synergy model and offer a very valuable free group intro via teleclass every month. Men and Women are invited. You'll find that the principles apply to virtually all your relationships.

Learn more at www.MenMasteringRelationship.com

Also, you might want to check out David Deida's books, especially "The Way of the Superior Man."

Weird title, I know.

Here's what one client said:

Hey justice.
I'm half done the book you recommended. Within the first 3-4 pages, i decided I had to fire you. I thought, "this book is for horny teenagers, Justice must be insane".......

then i kept reading.....

and, although I do not like the presentation of the information,...i must say it is a f%$#ing amazing book. Some of the stuff is so obvious to me when i read it...but so opposite to how I have been leading my life. This book is really inspirational and I'm already working on the principles. The stuff about male female relationships...astounding...and I know it is 100% true.

so thanks...you are not fired! I am very excited about our next session on Friday.


All My Best!
Justice

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Permalink Reply by Oskarg on August 27, 2008 at 2:50pm

Hi all, this is my first post here, and I do feel that a public post on this topic actually borders on getting out of my comfort zone.. this is probably the right place to start.

Mark: Eventough I have read and agreed on some many of your thoughts and Ideas. I don't really understand the dichotomy that you are setting as the framework for this discussion. I don't think I understand, are you saying that we all inevitably need to choose between your two alternatives? What is your underlying point?

Dennis: I truly feel your pain. I have stood in a similar place in my relationship and we managed to get through it. I guess there are many ways to do it and it is not guaranted that you will succeed. However it IS possible to get back to love even when it feel like everything you do ends up being wrong. If you feel that you found the right woman but somehow it doesn't work anyway it is possible to find the right feeling again.

I hope you find the energy and courage to try as many ways possible before you give up on your marriage.

My first advice (which you may already have done) is to get help from an external part. We did couples therapy with a cognitive behaviour therapist. I do think there are many different methods that work, but the help of having someone from the outside look at you together was very very forward focusing. Some of our lock-ups got better just by looking at them a little bit from the side.

My spouse was not in love with me when we started our jorney back, but we found a way eventhough I for myself had never thought it was possible.

My thoughts are with you Dennis, I hope you find a way forward.

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Permalink Reply by Sara Grace on August 27, 2008 at 3:22pm

Oskarg, bravo to you for being brave!

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Permalink Reply by Mark Goulston on August 27, 2008 at 5:51pm

Thanks to all for responding so thoughtfully and candidly.
I started this because in many years as a couples therapist I have frequently observed that marriages don't end because you stop loving each other, but because you can't stop hating each other.
And the greatest cause of that is not talking through the inevitable disappointments that occur between couples, but instead either avoiding that by both people shutting down or making it worse by one person attacking and the other becoming defensive.
Over time the build up of untalked through conflicts can build up and corrode the relationship from the inside out.

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Permalink Reply by Spark O Spark on August 29, 2008 at 11:17am

Thanks for your insight. I have to differ with you, however. I am divorced and neither one of us hated each other. We split because he was involved in some destructive behavior that was reeking havoc on my children and I. I have never hated him. In fact, I love him. My choice to divorce him was for the preservation of my children and myself.

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